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| Is Bush The Worst U.S. President Ever? |
| Yes |
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| No |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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death_bunny510
let me feel numb in my dark happy place
Age: 16
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 255
Location: tacoma
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 Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| THEN WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING WHY ARE THOUSANDS STILL DYING AND WHY ARE WE SENDING MORE TO KILL???// |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't you type correctly?
We made some mistakes, but we can't just pull out now. To pull out right now without having a stable government in place will lead up to more lives lost, although the majority won't be American. |
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@SARA@
..uae..
Age: 20
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 247
Location: United Arab Emirates -UAE
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Atelophobic wrote: | Republicans control the media?!
You don't even LIVE in the United States. How do you know?
Thats right. You know nothing about what happens here.
And I'm not Jewish, yet I'm Republican. |
I said there r SOME jews in the Republican party control the media its fact everybody knows bcoz they have Huge funds to run everything as they want . |
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@SARA@
..uae..
Age: 20
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 247
Location: United Arab Emirates -UAE
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="Asriya"]@Sara@, I hate to say this, but you might want to stop this thread if you want to preserve some face on this board. You're resorted to name calling, swearing, racism, and paranoia already. This thread is now laughable if anything.
Just out of curiosity, Sara, do you know anything about the other United States presidents? |
Well Mr Bush is not my boss so as outside of America point of view he has made a big mistakes and done some strange things .And i m just saying my view about the president of the US ,as many people said their views about Saddam in other thread ..I think its ok to say that Both of them are bad ..
Nixon murdered thousands of people extending the war like he did including americans.Clinton has a huge body count of people who have died under mystrious deaths who knew too much about his evil doings in arkansas,BUSH knew the trade center tragedy would happen and did nothing to stop it.Like hitler,they are murderers ..I know about Harry Truman and Reagan , Lincoln .. maybe u r right he s not the worst but he worse .. |
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@SARA@
..uae..
Age: 20
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 247
Location: United Arab Emirates -UAE
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Nojoy wrote: | | @SARA@ wrote: | | Lets be honest he just follow the Republicans(most of them jews who control the media and other major places ) and dont used his own mind but i dont think bush is the problem. |
Actually, only about 87% of Jew control the media.
Don't feel ashamed, its a common misconception. |
You must be so happy that they cover the isreali crimes .. |
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alx
Wanker
Age: 16
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 3301
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Asriya wrote: | Why don't you type correctly?
We made some mistakes, but we can't just pull out now. To pull out right now without having a stable government in place will lead up to more lives lost, although the majority won't be American. |
The reason its taking so long is because america is forcing its political system on irac.
The biggist mistake was the cia training saddam in the first place.
Why do you think that the people of irac will just have a huge blood bath the moment US troops leave?
Do you really belive that? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Why do you think that the people of irac will just have a huge blood bath the moment US troops leave?
Do you really belive that? |
Do you believe the religion fractions are going to step down and look at it from an Iraqi viewpoint and not as Sunnis or Shias? Many will look at it from that viewpoint, but those that won't will cause both the terrorist and the civilian populations to shrink.
@Sara@, you really don't know much about presidents considering there are forty-two of them and you named ten or less. Throwing the whole Clinton thing shows that you read too many chain letters too.
The difference between the people posting their views about Saddam and you creating this thread is because you're looking for people to agree with you when most don't. You did correct it to him being a bad president, but I disagree with your reasons entirely.
Bush doesn't separates his religious views from his political views and yes, it can be done. If you can't do it, I seriously hope you never run for office as long as "Freedom of Religion" is still around (at the very least, anything matter that would go against your religious views should come up). He spends too much and I don't support his violations of human rights. |
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jd
Member
Age: 19
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: |
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I dont think that the topic of this post is fair, because most of us were not around to even see more than three of the presidents.
Blaming Bush for killing thousands of people, stealing oil, being stupid AND a dumb@ss is questionable. I would like to know how many people commenting on this thread really know what he has done, and what he hasnt.
blaming the voters...its too late for that. Do you know what gore or kerry would have done? you dont. we dont.
Thousands are dying. yes. i have two comments on that:
1) if we pull out, hundreds of thousands run a huge risk of dying. (people who hate the U.S. will actually attack us, i hope you know. they know how to build nukes, they will use them, and last i heard, Israel runs the risk of being wiped off the face of the earth)
2)does anyone realize how many men died in WWII? or the Great War? thousands and thousands and thousands...and yet we remained unified and supportive until the end. What is so bad about doing that now? our troops, american men and women, are over there fighting as hard as they can, for a country they believe in, an country that is dividing itself while they are away. there is nothing like troops coming home after a long time of fighting...to an unwelcoming crowd. our troops WANT to be defending the country. they are volunteers. without them...our country is wide open to anyone who wants to run us through.
@SARA@: if bush knew about the trade center, it still takes congress to put anything into action (balance of powers, remember? Exevutive, Legislative and Judicial branches...)and who would believe...an attack on the *most powerful* country? but it happened, and it opened many peoples eyes.
If democracy isn't the best gov. to give to the iraqi's, (im not saying it is) then what is? there has to be SOME kind of gov.
and alx, why cant you spell Iraq correctly?
I am not trying to accuse anyone or anger anyone, im stating my views. if anyone wants to get mad and yell at me, then go ahead. but honestly, i had to get that out. Im tired of hearing everyone accusing one man for the faults of many.
P.S. just for the record, in case this comes up, there is nothing in the constitution about seperation of church and state. it says the gov. should not establish a religion, and it also says there is freedom of religion (just as Asriya commented), but nothing about seperation of church and state. |
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Atelophobic
The one you love to hate
Age: 19
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 808
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| jd... you have won my respect. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I dont think that the topic of this post is fair, because most of us were not around to even see more than three of the presidents. |
United States History and Government. Have you taken either class? In my state, it's required to graduate. Just because you haven't lived it doesn't mean you have the right to be ignorant about it.
| Quote: |
Blaming Bush for killing thousands of people, stealing oil, being stupid AND a dumb@ss is questionable. I would like to know how many people commenting on this thread really know what he has done, and what he hasnt. |
I never blamed him for stealing oil, but I will blame him for the other two. Did we absolutely need to go to war with Iraq? No. If September 11th had never happened, I think that we would never have gone to war with Iraq.
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blaming the voters...its too late for that. Do you know what gore or kerry would have done? you dont. we dont. |
Wow. Clearly I don't like Bush so therefore I must have wanted Kerry in office! Did I ever say that Kerry would have been better? In fact, I don't remember anyone saying that.
| Quote: | Thousands are dying. yes. i have two comments on that:
1) if we pull out, hundreds of thousands run a huge risk of dying. (people who hate the U.S. will actually attack us, i hope you know. they know how to build nukes, they will use them, and last i heard, Israel runs the risk of being wiped off the face of the earth) |
Actually, no. Knowing how to build nukes and possessing the materials is different from just knowing. Also, if they had nukes, why haven't they used them? Setting off a nuke would convince us to leave pretty quickly. Unless there is some formal source, then I doubt it.
Israel also is not at risk of being wiped off the planet.
| Quote: | | 2)does anyone realize how many men died in WWII? or the Great War? thousands and thousands and thousands...and yet we remained unified and supportive until the end. What is so bad about doing that now? our troops, american men and women, are over there fighting as hard as they can, for a country they believe in, an country that is dividing itself while they are away. there is nothing like troops coming home after a long time of fighting...to an unwelcoming crowd. our troops WANT to be defending the country. they are volunteers. without them...our country is wide open to anyone who wants to run us through. |
History class would help you here. What happened before WWII? Hm. Pearl Harbor perhaps? (Different from September 11th as it was a direct attack from the Japanese whereas September 11th was a terrorist group with no set country). Also, the fact that there was no Internet and GB was controlling the news that made it over to America might have made some slight impact. People also had fear of the outcome if Germany and Japan won the war as both were seeking to colonize.
The biggest question would be the question are the soldiers really defending our country or are they defending the Iraqi citizens? As far as I know, there has been no definite link between Saddam and the terrorists in September 11.
I'll be honest with you and say that you need to realize the difference between supporting the troops and not supporting the war. You can do both.
| Quote: | @SARA@: if bush knew about the trade center, it still takes congress to put anything into action (balance of powers, remember? Exevutive, Legislative and Judicial branches...)and who would believe...an attack on the *most powerful* country? but it happened, and it opened many peoples eyes.
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Actually, I missed that. @Sara@, it makes no sense that Bush would know about the WTC and not do anything about it. If he knew for sure it was going to happen, he would have stopped it as it cost America a lot of money (and lives). There might have been a report or two, but how many reports does Bush get a day? Does he understand them? Did the person briefing him do a good job that day?
| Quote: | | If democracy isn't the best gov. to give to the iraqi's, (im not saying it is) then what is? there has to be SOME kind of gov. |
It's not a democracy, it's a republic.
| Quote: |
P.S. just for the record, in case this comes up, there is nothing in the constitution about seperation of church and state. it says the gov. should not establish a religion, and it also says there is freedom of religion (just as Asriya commented), but nothing about seperation of church and state. |
Silly me. I forgot. However, through court cases (remember the separation of powers you mentioned), we have come to realize that there is separation of church and state. |
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Socko Puppeto
Who are you again?
Age: 19
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 367
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| you're the worst president when you have states leaving the union and you don't do shit to stop them. really have to wonder which side he was on. |
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jd
Member
Age: 19
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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thank you, Asriya, for tearing apart my post.
Asriya, i was not accusing you of anything, even though it seems as if you took it that way. to clarify my satements and to reply to some of yours:
| Quote: | | United States History and Government. Have you taken either class? In my state, it's required to graduate. Just because you haven't lived it doesn't mean you have the right to be ignorant about it |
I meant the topic. yes, as im soon graduating, i have taken history and gov. classes. but when it comes to someone posting a reply, many will think not on their history class, but on what they have heard as of late in the media.
| Quote: | | I never blamed him for stealing oil, but I will blame him for the other two. Did we absolutely need to go to war with Iraq? No. If September 11th had never happened, I think that we would never have gone to war with Iraq. |
I know you didnt blame him for stealing oil, but @SARA@ did. no, we most likely would not have gone to war if the Wolrd Trade Centers had not been attacked. but they were. 9/11 happened. so that makes bush an idiot? what was he suppposed to do, just let the country sit and take it while terrorists laugh at us? Remember, we didnt go to war with iraq first, we tried to catch osama. and yeah, its pretty stupid that we havn't. thats idiotic, ill give you that one. but at least we did something. its bettter to make a decision and act, then to stand in the middle and decide not to decide.
| Quote: | | Wow. Clearly I don't like Bush so therefore I must have wanted Kerry in office! Did I ever say that Kerry would have been better? In fact, I don't remember anyone saying that. |
no, no one said kerry would be better, but @SARA@ did say this:
| Quote: | | only the people who voted for him should be locked up. half the voters in america gave an idiot a second term because the man who had killed thousands of iraqi civilians, triggered violence around the world, and took away thier basic freedoms, was considered the best guy to keep them safe!! |
and my point was that there is no way you can blame voters for those things even if those things were true.
| Quote: | Actually, no. Knowing how to build nukes and possessing the materials is different from just knowing. Also, if they had nukes, why haven't they used them? Setting off a nuke would convince us to leave pretty quickly. Unless there is some formal source, then I doubt it.
Israel also is not at risk of being wiped off the planet. |
But, iran has a nuclear weapons program. The president of iran said so, and he also said that they would use them on israel. (he said all this in his speech to the U.N.) it would only take about four or five nukes to get rid of the country of israel completely. I really do hope that does not happen.
setting off a nuke where? in the US, we would stay, in iraq, we would stay. think about it. if they hit us over there, we would just send over more men. the best bet for them would be to wait until they could set several off simultaneously. hopefully that never happens.
| Quote: | | History class would help you here. What happened before WWII? Hm. Pearl Harbor perhaps? (Different from September 11th as it was a direct attack from the Japanese whereas September 11th was a terrorist group with no set country). Also, the fact that there was no Internet and GB was controlling the news that made it over to America might have made some slight impact. People also had fear of the outcome if Germany and Japan won the war as both were seeking to colonize. |
I'm not sure what pearl harbor has to do with this. if you are saying it was the reason we entered the war...well, it was, but war with germany was inevitable anyway, (we had been helping Great Britain for a while anyhow) and pearl harbor just caused us to go to war with japan also.
are you blaming the internet for the fact that we are un-unified? the internet is useful for getting news on iraq from qualified sources, and for getting news that says the CIA trained Saddam, like alx mistakenly believes. the best way to find out what is really happening there is to go to websites of soldiers over there right now.
the mass media of the US shows all the horrible things happening in iraq. death, hate...they never shed light on good things there too...
do you not fear the outcome if we pull out of those countrys and stop fighitng terrorism? then attacks on the US are even more possible.
| Quote: | | It's not a democracy, it's a republic. |
my mistake. the US has a republic. iraq has a form of gov where a parliament is elected by the people, and a prime minister is elected by the parliament. i stupidly used the word 'democracy' to mean 'where the people vote'. hopefully i've made it clear as to what i meant.
| Quote: | | Silly me. I forgot. However, through court cases (remember the separation of powers you mentioned), we have come to realize that there is separation of church and state. |
im assuming the court cases you are reffering to are ones where people have tried to remove the word 'god' from schools. as far as i know, none of these court cases have ever been won. and the fact that some people dislike the use of the word 'god' in public places and/or on money and in the pledge of allegiance does not mean that the entire nation (thats all i can understand you to mean, when you say 'we') suddenly realizes there should be no religion. the word 'god' is used in many many religions, not just one. what i meant was, it is not illegal for the president to say 'god' in his speeches, or for the word 'god' to be in the pledge or on money. it is illegal, though, for the gov. to take on a national religion. that would be the combining of church and state. |
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Nojoy
The Zionist Enemy
Age: 16
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1123
Location: Soviet Canuckistan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Asriya wrote: |
I never blamed him for stealing oil, but I will blame him for the other two. Did we absolutely need to go to war with Iraq? No. If September 11th had never happened, I think that we would never have gone to war with Iraq. |
The US went to war with Iraq on the basis of Saddam having WMDs that he wanted to try out on the US of A, not for being a cause for 9/11
| Asriya wrote: |
Actually, no. Knowing how to build nukes and possessing the materials is different from just knowing. Also, if they had nukes, why haven't they used them? Setting off a nuke would convince us to leave pretty quickly. Unless there is some formal source, then I doubt it. |
Well I mean Germany, France, China, Great Britain and the US under Bush Senior all sold uranium to Saddam and he clearly wasn't using it for no power plants. If Iraq nuked the US, well that would kinda be like Pearl Harbor, yes? Weren't you just talking about that?
| Asriya wrote: |
Israel also is not at risk of being wiped off the planet. |
Tell it to Iran (who is by the way sharing it's new found technology with the entire Arab world)
| jd wrote: |
I'm not sure what pearl harbor has to do with this. if you are saying it was the reason we entered the war...well, it was, but war with germany was inevitable anyway, (we had been helping Great Britain for a while anyhow) and pearl harbor just caused us to go to war with japan also. |
You couldn't be more wrong
| jd wrote: |
are you blaming the internet for the fact that we are un-unified? the internet is useful for getting news on iraq from qualified sources, and for getting news that says the CIA trained Saddam, like alx mistakenly believes. the best way to find out what is really happening there is to go to websites of soldiers over there right now. |
They trained Osama Bin Laden too.
The internet is a valuable too for spreading all information, like that the Republican Jewevil forces of terror controls the media (thank you very much @SARA@)
| jd wrote: |
do you not fear the outcome if we pull out of those countrys and stop fighitng terrorism? then attacks on the US are even more possible. |
And I thought you couldn't be more wrong before.
Anyone who thinks the War in Iraq is preventing terror from spreading around the globe shouldn't be given their mating license.
I'd just like to point out that jd's "P.S." wasn't actually P.S. per se and he should refrain from doing that in the future if he wants to give the impression that he received his basic schooling. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| jd wrote: | thank you, Asriya, for tearing apart my post.
Asriya, i was not accusing you of anything, even though it seems as if you took it that way. to clarify my satements and to reply to some of yours: |
No, I just found some of your points as BS.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | United States History and Government. Have you taken either class? In my state, it's required to graduate. Just because you haven't lived it doesn't mean you have the right to be ignorant about it |
I meant the topic. yes, as im soon graduating, i have taken history and gov. classes. but when it comes to someone posting a reply, many will think not on their history class, but on what they have heard as of late in the media. |
Yet if you don't analyze history and apply past knowledge, then what progress is there?
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| Quote: | | I never blamed him for stealing oil, but I will blame him for the other two. Did we absolutely need to go to war with Iraq? No. If September 11th had never happened, I think that we would never have gone to war with Iraq. |
I know you didnt blame him for stealing oil, but @SARA@ did. no, we most likely would not have gone to war if the Wolrd Trade Centers had not been attacked. but they were. 9/11 happened. so that makes bush an idiot? what was he suppposed to do, just let the country sit and take it while terrorists laugh at us? Remember, we didnt go to war with iraq first, we tried to catch osama. and yeah, its pretty stupid that we havn't. thats idiotic, ill give you that one. but at least we did something. its bettter to make a decision and act, then to stand in the middle and decide not to decide. |
We were foolish to invade and assume that other countries will step up and help us. Cheney also linked Saddam with the terrorists (he said this in a CNN interview, but later denied ever saying it several times in a MSNBC interview. I'm a bit confused as to what country you're talking about? The terrorists taking over our country?
Bush is an idiot for his practices. Let's wiretap people without getting court orders! Let's fly people around Europe and deny that we're doing it! Let's have a ban against gay marriage because our religious beliefs are against it and the entire nation must have the same religious beliefs!
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| Quote: | | Wow. Clearly I don't like Bush so therefore I must have wanted Kerry in office! Did I ever say that Kerry would have been better? In fact, I don't remember anyone saying that. |
no, no one said kerry would be better, but @SARA@ did say this:
| Quote: | | only the people who voted for him should be locked up. half the voters in america gave an idiot a second term because the man who had killed thousands of iraqi civilians, triggered violence around the world, and took away thier basic freedoms, was considered the best guy to keep them safe!! |
and my point was that there is no way you can blame voters for those things even if those things were true. |
Uh, yeah we can. People are ignorant and think that if they give up their basic freedoms, the government will protect them. Triggering violence and the Iraqi war, not so much as people did not have enough foresight the first election that it was coming.
| Quote: | | Quote: | Actually, no. Knowing how to build nukes and possessing the materials is different from just knowing. Also, if they had nukes, why haven't they used them? Setting off a nuke would convince us to leave pretty quickly. Unless there is some formal source, then I doubt it.
Israel also is not at risk of being wiped off the planet. |
But, iran has a nuclear weapons program. The president of iran said so, and he also said that they would use them on israel. (he said all this in his speech to the U.N.) it would only take about four or five nukes to get rid of the country of israel completely. I really do hope that does not happen.
setting off a nuke where? in the US, we would stay, in iraq, we would stay. think about it. if they hit us over there, we would just send over more men. the best bet for them would be to wait until they could set several off simultaneously. hopefully that never happens.
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[/quote]Can you cite your sources? Who said they have nuclear weapons? I haven't kept up on the issue as I have other stuff to do so please find me a source. As for setting off a bomb, if it was set off in Iraq, I think that it would strengthen the case of pulling out.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | History class would help you here. What happened before WWII? Hm. Pearl Harbor perhaps? (Different from September 11th as it was a direct attack from the Japanese whereas September 11th was a terrorist group with no set country). Also, the fact that there was no Internet and GB was controlling the news that made it over to America might have made some slight impact. People also had fear of the outcome if Germany and Japan won the war as both were seeking to colonize. |
I'm not sure what pearl harbor has to do with this. if you are saying it was the reason we entered the war...well, it was, but war with germany was inevitable anyway, (we had been helping Great Britain for a while anyhow) and pearl harbor just caused us to go to war with japan also.
are you blaming the internet for the fact that we are un-unified? the internet is useful for getting news on iraq from qualified sources, and for getting news that says the CIA trained Saddam, like alx mistakenly believes. the best way to find out what is really happening there is to go to websites of soldiers over there right now.
the mass media of the US shows all the horrible things happening in iraq. death, hate...they never shed light on good things there too...
do you not fear the outcome if we pull out of those countrys and stop fighitng terrorism? then attacks on the US are even more possible. |
Pearl Harbor is the reason why WWII had overwhelming support for the war effort. It sort of woke the nation up and it was "the thing" to do anything you could for the troops even if you were collecting scrap metal. Yes we were helping GB beforehand, but we would not have had as many men who were willing to die if it was not for Pearl Harbor.
Just in case you forgot, GB was controlling the news received about the European theater before we entered the war. Therefore, we got a lot of ally propaganda. While it would be possible on the Internet, it would not be as likely or as practical to try and control it.
You've just addressed a point that I've forgotten. The fight against terrorism. Bush is stupid for using that phrase. A person can never end terrorism and so running around saying you're fighting it is pointless. It's like having "Green" or whatever the lowest terror-alert color is. We will never have the terror-threat set to green and we will never end terrorism. Look at the Founding Fathers! What do you think they were?
| Quote: | | It's not a democracy, it's a republic. |
my mistake. the US has a republic. iraq has a form of gov where a parliament is elected by the people, and a prime minister is elected by the parliament. i stupidly used the word 'democracy' to mean 'where the people vote'. hopefully i've made it clear as to what i meant.
| Quote: | | Silly me. I forgot. However, through court cases (remember the separation of powers you mentioned), we have come to realize that there is separation of church and state. |
im assuming the court cases you are reffering to are ones where people have tried to remove the word 'god' from schools. as far as i know, none of these court cases have ever been won. and the fact that some people dislike the use of the word 'god' in public places and/or on money and in the pledge of allegiance does not mean that the entire nation (thats all i can understand you to mean, when you say 'we') suddenly realizes there should be no religion. the word 'god' is used in many many religions, not just one. what i meant was, it is not illegal for the president to say 'god' in his speeches, or for the word 'god' to be in the pledge or on money. it is illegal, though, for the gov. to take on a national religion. that would be the combining of church and state.[/quote]
I personally say we should use the motto of the United States (anyone say "In God We Trust" should be shot. It's not the motto.) for the coins and take the Pledge back to its original form (yes, it did not have God in it originally.).
What kills me is that people pretend that "God" is really "god." If it's "God," then it's not many religions, it's three religions. To be many religions, the phrase would have to be something along the lines of "In Your Divine Ruler We Trust."
As for court cases, I was more thinking along a few I've read in the ACLU handbook I borrowed and in the news where schools would try and prohibit the display of religious objects or clubs forming. Funny, but the schools lost. As for the removal of God, I've heard differently in some of the cases.
(I'm running off of Mountain Dew so I'll edit this in the morning and I'll also read Nojoy's post then.) |
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Atelophobic
The one you love to hate
Age: 19
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 808
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Let's have a ban against gay marriage because our religious beliefs are against it and the entire nation must have the same religious beliefs! |
He's not all to blame for that. We had a vote whether or not to allow gay marriage in Michigan. It was a big NO. So obviously, a majority don't want it either. |
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